The Business Revolution Episode 11

In this episode, we explore the power of coaching in driving sustainability progress within organisations. Our guest, Dr Jon Rhodes, a chartered psychologist and co-founder of Net Zero MAP, shares his insights on how a coaching-led approach can empower individuals, strengthen teams, and accelerate sustainable change.

We discuss the Net Zero MAP framework, the importance of intrinsic motivation, and the role of leadership in creating a culture of sustainability. Tune in as we uncover the transformative potential of coaching for a more sustainable future.

Tune in to gain valuable insights and get inspired to attend our event on 26 March 2025.

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Dr Jon Rhodes’ bio:

Dr Jon Rhodes is a highly accomplished Chartered Psychologist with a proven track record of empowering individuals and teams across a diverse range of fields, including Olympic athletes, Members of Parliament, business executives, the Ministry of Defence, education, and healthcare. He holds a PhD in Psychology from the University of Plymouth and is a Chartered Member of the British Psychological Society.

As the co-founder of Imagery Coaching, Jon co-developed the groundbreaking Functional Imagery Training approach, specifically designed to enhance individual and team performance. By focusing on values, beliefs, thoughts, and actions, his approach leverages the fundamentals of intrinsic motivation – connection, autonomy, and mastery, which demonstrably drives lasting behaviour change including increased self-awareness, self-efficacy and resilience and consistent goal achievement.

Links:

Net Zero MAP: www.netzeromap.org

Dr Jon Rhodes on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jon-rhodes-phd

Imagery Coaching: www.imagerycoaching.com

Inner Development Goals

The world’s progress towards the United Nations’ Sustainable Development Goals is slow. Why?

A key factor is how we think and act. Research shows that individual and organisational challenges, such as limited self-awareness, unconscious biases, short term thinking and ineffective collaboration, hinder our ability to translate strategies into action.

To overcome these challenges, the Inner Development Goals project was initiated in 2019 by a number of organisations that identified an urgent need for the development of relevant skills and qualities for inner growth of leaders who work with complex societal issues.

The result is a framework with five dimensions:

Being: Understanding ourselves and our motivations.
Thinking: Expanding our awareness and seeing problems as opportunities.
Relating: Building empathy and appreciation for others.
Collaborating: Fostering trust and effective teamwork.
Acting: Overcoming inner blocks and taking action.

By consciously applying these dimensions, we can improve our decision-making, collaboration, and overall effectiveness in achieving our goals.

Businesses like 3P Impact and Bluebird Leadership are using the Inner Development Goals in their work, helping unlock the best in ourselves and our teams.

You can find out more about the Inner Development Goals here

Episode 11 links

🎧 𝐓𝐁𝐑 notes and transcript: www.businessrevolution.earth/businessrevolution11

🎧 𝐓𝐁𝐑 episode 11 for download: audio mp3

🎧 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐭𝐢𝐟𝐲: open.spotify.com/episode

🎧 𝐀𝐩𝐩𝐥𝐞 𝐏𝐨𝐝𝐜𝐚𝐬𝐭: podcasts.apple.com

📺 𝐘𝐨𝐮𝐭𝐮𝐛𝐞: video

Social media posts: Linkedin – Facebook – Instagram

Transcript – episode 11

Mik Aidt (00:00)

Welcome or welcome back to some of you to The Business Revolution, the podcast where we tend to rewrite the rules of business for the green transition for a sustainable future. I’m Mik, your co-host.

Cherry Ward (00:14)

And I’m Cherry.

Alan Taylor (00:16)

And I’m Alan and we’re your guides on this journey to explore the intersection of business, sustainability and positive change.

Cherry Ward (00:24)

Each episode will bring you inspiring conversations with experts, entrepreneurs, changemakers who are proving that sustainability isn’t just good for the planet, it’s good for business as well.

Mik Aidt (00:36)

We do our best to uncover innovative solutions and good practical strategies for businesses. And we’re always on the lookout for new trends that will shape the future of sustainable business.

Alan Taylor (00:49)

Even whether you’re a seasoned CEO, a budding entrepreneur, or simply curious about how to make a difference, you’ve come to the right place.

Cherry Ward (00:57)

So grab a cup of your favourite sustainable brew, settle in and get ready to be inspired. This is The Business Revolution.

Mik Aidt (01:05)

And in this episode, we’re going to explore how a coaching led approach can drive sustainability progress in a company. And not only that, it can also empower the employees and strengthen their connection to their organisations.

Cherry Ward (01:20)

And to help us explore this fascinating topic, we’re joined by our colleague from Net Zero Map, Dr Jon Rhodes.

Alan Taylor (01:27)

Jon is a highly accomplished chartered psychologist with a proven track record in empowering individuals and teams across diverse fields, from Olympic athletes to business executives. He’s the co-founder of imagery coaching and co-developer of the groundbreaking functional imagery training approach. Jon, welcome to The Business Revolution.

Dr. Jon Rhodes (01:50)

Thank you very much, thank you. Great intro. I know, yeah, it feels like I’m busy. It’s like I’m busy a lot, but I suppose I have been.

Alan Taylor (01:58)

You’ve got your PhD in psychology and the University of Plymouth and you’re doing all of your other businesses. I think so.

Dr. Jon Rhodes (02:05)

I think I’m just curious. I’m curious too. I’m of service. I like to support people. I like to support organisations and I think that behavior change is a fascinating thing we talk about a lot.

In industry, in sport, in the military and even at home we talk about change. So I think it’s a good word. It can also be a naughty word as well. So I think it’s just navigating that with the right motivation in mind.

Cherry Ward (02:30)

Yeah, it’s a really relevant topic. Well, it always is, right? There’s always change. It keeps us busy, keeps us employed in terms of the work that we do.

Dr. Jon Rhodes (02:41)

That’s the truth. Yeah. And it’s interesting, you know, because there are so many frameworks and things that exist within behavior change, but they’re also unique to the situation, the circumstance, the time, the priorities, the purpose, all those things are already important when you think about change.

You know, and we’re all at different levels of readiness to change as well. So I think it’s meeting the person where they are, figuring out what the best route is, and then supporting them or giving them a MAP in our case, to really work through navigating change over time.

Cherry Ward (03:16)

I think that’s a good starting point. And I think, this is a question for both yourself, Jon and Alan and for our listeners who might not know, Alan and I are also partners in the Net Zero MAP team, along with Jon and a couple of others.

We’re a collective of coaches and consultants, and we all have diverse backgrounds in psychology, sustainability, business, coaching, etc. tut this might be a good starting point in terms of, you know, you guys are the co-founders or started the journey. Tell us a little bit about the MAP model and where that came from.

Dr. Jon Rhodes (03:47)

Yeah, I think from my point of view, it’s thinking about the problem first. You know, we’ve all been in organisations where we struggle to make a change.

We’ve all, you know, been in organisations where the leaders are perhaps the issue. We’ve all been in organisations where we have lots of information around change, but there’s no real motivation to act. So we all know that, right?

We have this kind of inbuilt human way that, you know, being the change makers are really important, but actually as humans, we struggle to adapt and to change quite often. We like our routine and our habits.

So, yeah, I suppose our problem to start off with was really figuring out, you know, where people are in their journey of change.

Do they actually care about net zero? Do they care about being sustainable in their behaviours? Some people do not, some organisations do not.

So it’s meeting people where they currently are and then working with them to really focus on intrinsic motivation to then, I suppose, to kind of pollinate these ideas within groups so that people can kind of gain tracks around why it’s important to you first, to you as an individual, and then why it’s important for us as an organisation. And what can we do beyond the organisation as well?

Thinking about that kind of global change or community change and then national change and global change.

So we’re looking at all those different levels. But my interest is really again around, can you measure it? Can we do something about it? Can we retest it? And so what? Can we actually have an impact over time? And the people show behavioral intentions and actions as well.

Mik Aidt (05:27)

Hmm, so what’s the answer to all that? I mean, I’m really curious now.

Dr. Jon Rhodes (05:32)

Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, it’s an age old answer. The age old answer is emotion drives behavior change, not information.

And, you know, we could talk about Aristotle and all these historical figures and why it was so important, but we kind of forget it over time. And we go back to what we think we need to do. But it’s really an inside-out process of behavior change, which starts with values for us.

So as a group, we kind of said: Look, if you don’t know your values and you’re not aware of your values, then that’s where we start. But also: Can you show me on your calendar where your values show up? So how are you putting your values into action?

And so we would do that with teams. We would say: Where is it?

If you value curiosity, for example, if that’s one of your core driving factors. Where is it? Where is your time in the week where you can live this kind of be curious and allow yourself this ability to mind-wonder and to be creative? And people might say: No, well, I haven’t really got that! So, you’re not living your values.

So we started with this intrinsic factor around values and you know intrinsic motivation is really focused on yeah my purpose my why but also being connected to others so I need to have this ability to connect to feel related to feel like we’re all in this together and there’s some kind of plan over time as well.

Yeah, it’s I mean, we’ve created this kind of process, I suppose, in a way, which is the MAP. So your own personal meaning. What does it mean to you?

Awareness. What can you do? Are you aware of some of the kind of behavioral intentions and then purpose?

So, so what? So we look at this kind of MAP approach and through lots of dialogues, with lots of discussions with individuals and then with teams, we can really start to unlock motivation and unlock future potential around sustained behaviour change.

Mik Aidt (07:18)

So what does the MAP look like today? Is it a pamphlet? Is it a course that you go through? What is it in concrete terms?

Dr. Jon Rhodes (07:26)

Perfect. That’s a great question because we are developing concrete materials to be able to obviously disseminate our approach to everyone.

So initially there is a research paper, which is kind of where we started, which explains exactly what the processes are, the steps are for the MAP. Now, of course, every coach in the world will have their own philosophy, their own approaches.

So we kind of guide you through the certain things you will need to do within the academic paper, but also we are developing courses as well to teach the process.

This starts really with person-centered communication, this kind of empathy-based connection from the inside out and thinking about why is it important to you?

And if it’s not, well, why not? There must be a reason why. And often we have difficult conversations with people around, around change and they may not be ready to change, it not be the right time.

And with every goal, the other thing that we use a lot as well, especially from my background, is looking at how your imagination plays a key role in this process. Because every goal that you have, every conversation that you foresee, you will use imagination in certain ways.

So we support individuals and teams to really plan through in depth and detail, we call it multi-sensory imagery, plan through different scenarios, plan through different conversations, plan through what if we didn’t do it, what if we did do it, and we get them to hypothesise in great depth and detail and then formulate plans over time.

But yeah, that’s a course that we’re developing that we aim to, again, to cascade out. And we’ve got a book out coming out as well this year. So there’s lots of resources where people can then pick up the model.

Mik Aidt (09:04)

And I understand both Alan and Cherry are part of that book. You’ve also contributed?

Alan Taylor (09:09)

Yeah, the team – we’ve all contributed and have to give a lot to Jon. He’s done… he’s certainly been the key person behind it. So credit where is due there. But yeah, we’ve all added a little bit in there.

But I’d like to add a little bit to what Jon said and sort of share it from a different lens as well on on that understanding ourselves in our own values. And as we’re going through the program, we were able to see it was almost like holding up the mirror in been

I hope that people could see themselves, they’re sharing what their values were and then they were able to actually unpack what that really meant to them.

It’s sort of reiterating what Jon said really, but where the strength of that was, I just want to emphasise it, I think, is when people were using those imagery, all the tools that Jon’s just mentioned, it’s just seeing the lights come on sometimes. Some of those people who weren’t necessarily ready for change were suddenly able to go, wow, light bulb, ding.

And now we can actually, I want to change now, or in some other cases, it was how the alignment was there. Okay, I want change for this reason. You want to change for that reason.

But now we can actually see we’ve got different reasons to go down the same path, or at least in similar paths that we can build on that and want to, and that’s a really powerful word, want to actually play around in that space. And it was a big driver.

Mik Aidt (10:29)

Something I’ve noticed, and maybe you would comment on this, either of you three, about sustainability is that we humans, we tend to do what our neighbours are doing or what people around us are doing.

If we stand in an elevator, it’s as simple as that, if there are three people in there before us, we’ll stand in the same direction as they do – and so on. So we are these sort of social animals. And how does that work in a company?

Because I would think that it’s not just about individuals, it’s actually about finding a way to get all these individuals to do something where they feel they’re together about it. Or am I wrong?

Dr. Jon Rhodes (11:05)

You’re totally right. Spot on, Mik. As well, I think that there’s the, you know, we’re using a lot of approaches in what we do. Like we are starting with you as an individual because you own your own choices.

So we empower people to really have the knowledge and the motivation to own those moments of being more climate aware or sustainable interactions.

Then hopefully that cascade, which is what’s happened. One person has a knock on the fetch from another person. So yes, we’re using, you mentioned the start functional imagery training, which is the whole, do you imagine this happening?

We’re using nudge approaches to these areas as well. We’re thinking about how small, you know, behaviours that you might do would have an impact on other people.

There are infographics, there’s meetings going on groups are running projects around sustainable behaviours.

So it is an individual shift related to other people that connects and draws in, it’s like a magnet that draws in interest.

And we have lots in there as well, to speak to Alan’s part and what his focus was really on, was on systems-led thinking and systems approaches. We have lots in there as well, of course, about systems thinking, you know, and the way that I see it, and I’m just going to kind of free style here, in my weird world of seeing things is… I see it as like a water system, right?

So you have your national board where your water comes from, where it’s all stored in the reservoir or whatever, and it kind of filters through all the housing that comes down to what you see.

You see the tap at the end, right? And so quite often, if the system is not working, people generally say, it’s the person at the top not doing their job and they replace the tap.

That’s what you see. Well, actually what we are doing is we’re impacting all the small systems that you can’t see, all the small infrastructures to stop the drips throughout the organisation. So that’s a very sustainable and efficient system.

And that when, comes the tap, water comes out, you’re coming up with the most amount of momentum and motivation and intention as well.

Alan Taylor (13:12)

I loved that. It’s brilliant. And I think it also reminds me of what you’ve shared there, especially the beginning of that part. Remind me of one of the very commonly used frames or word or terms that’s used when you talk about team work.

It’s like there’s no I in team. And where that systemic thing plays in is that there is an I in team, as long as the I understands that they’re part of the team. And that’s another way of reframing what’s said earlier as well.

And so when you’ve got all of these pieces in the team, I’ll change to a game, know soccer or rugby or any game where you’ve got a team sport… is I understand that, I’m part of that. And yeah, we want to score the goal. I might be the defender, but it’s what I’m doing is helping the whole team play to achieve the score.

Even though it doesn’t look like it, you start to have that realisation that it isn’t as obvious. It’s just another version of what Jon shared with the with the water really, it’s not that obvious flow. And so that systemic thinking mindset is a really powerful addition to our toolkit.

Mik Aidt (14:12)

Cherry, how do you see it in terms of the work that you’re doing also as a coach? How is it going to work for you to go out with this MAP?

Cherry Ward (14:17)

Yeah, it’s a great question. I think the organisations and clients I’m working with will see a lot of value in that because what often happens is, you know, using Jon’s analogy, we’ll fix the tap, you know, we’ll try and fix rather than thinking about what, well, what’s actually happening.

And I think any change requires, you know, all the parts to be working. And that’s part of that culture of transformation work that I’m often involved in.

You know, and I’ve seen it happen over the last two decades with safety in high risk industries. And you’ve got to take a multi-layered approach. And it’s the same in sustainability.

People need to have awareness of why we’re actually doing this within an organisation, but also what’s my personal connection to it. Because if there isn’t a personal connection, then it just becomes compliance.

Alan Taylor (15:09)

And so you imagine, just going to add to what Cherry is saying, bringing it in as an example within the program when we ran it, you’ve got people’s personal connection, might be, yeah, I don’t care about sustainability, but I do want my kids to have a future where they can play in the park and they’re going to see the birds fly by.

Cool. So that’s my motivator. And so that’s another one of the sort of scenarios that we saw in the program too which obviously we want to emphasise and build on.

Dr. Jon Rhodes (15:38)

Yeah, I think also on that, I’m just talking about around net zero. Net zero can also be a demotivating word. Like it’s difficult to get to net zero.

Some organisations will see a net zero program and say, that’s not for us because we’re aerospace, that’s not for us.

We have companies that come to us and say, okay, well, we’re not actively engaged in net zero, but we want to learn more. I mean, we want to be really more, more climate aware, but also we want to have some kind of, know, we know that we need to do better at what we’re doing to be more sustainable.

So I think the way that you brand things, I know that we’re focusing on net zero for us in the MAP area at the moment, but the way that organisations approach this kind of training, the important things with us always is having a model that we can use rigorously.

That’s the same, doesn’t matter who we go to, it’s reliable, which I think in coaching, in the coaching world, is hit and miss quite often with the approaches, which is why there’s such a high proportion of coaching frameworks that aren’t effective.

So what we know is that this is hugely effective as a program. It’s replicable and it starts with understanding the client in front of us. So we may have to use different language.

It may not be all about net zero. It could be about sustainable behaviours. It could be about just connecting with employees. So the branding evolves and changes with the meaning, which is the end part of our model.

Mik Aidt (17:07)

Now businesses are typically founded and run because people want to make money. Where does money come into the picture here?

Dr. Jon Rhodes (17:18)

Everywhere. Profitability. We are big also on return on investment. So don’t just think it’s, you know, a consultancy going in and doing a few sessions. Return on investment for us is huge.

And what we see when we do these approaches is that teams become more productive. They are more proactive. And yes, will.. it’s outlay initially of money to get coaches to go in to go and work with teams, yes, but it has a knock on effect on the profitability of organisations based on more effective communication, retention of staff, staff feel more valued and they retain and there’s a high degree of satisfaction as well when we do feedback, we do interviews with people beyond our course, they are generally more connected and definitely have a higher satisfaction in their job.

Alan Taylor (18:07)

And I’ll add to that an extra dimension on top of that, we saw and was, I think, proven, but we had demonstration examples of people in leadership roles who were showing more ability to solve problems.

You people that we always think are high in the chain or wherever they may be. And the fact is we’re all human, but they unlocked an ability to become better problem solvers through the collaboration and all the other things that Jon’s mentioned.

And when you see that in there, that’s where the productivity gains were. And I think it’d be worthwhile wrapping back up on how the research, what the results of the research, the measurable results show is we were comparing the coaching approach with a training approach.

Now, I’m not saying that one is better than the other, but the people who went through training, equivalent amount of time and effort spent on training.

They didn’t actually become better problem solvers. They had more knowledge, but not knowing how to use it any better.

What we enabled was unlocking that ability to think through problems and think. If you put the two together, knowledge and that capability, we got a 7 per cent improvement in cognitive ability.

You translate as a rough guess, let’s say that’s one day in a fortnight, roughly, of extra productivity, that’s pretty powerful.

Dr. Jon Rhodes (19:23)

Just to add to that, one last thing I promise is, and I’m not going to sit on the fence like Alan, I’m going to give you the researcher’s view. This is significantly more effective than one of the best climate initiative approaches out there.

So we have data that shows not only did our cohort have a better organisational belonging compared to a control group but also they were more actively engaged and their climate initiatives were ongoing beyond the project.

So beyond the project we finished and we did a review and they’re still climate active, still generating new projects and ideas to really engage more employees. So it is significantly more effective.

Alan Taylor (20:07)

I want to amplify the word belonging because the measures that we used are based on the Inner Development Goals and there’s five dimensions in there.

Talking to the organisations which were involved in the research, one of the things that came up with them is we want greater level of belonging.

Jon mentioned it earlier, the staff retention and all of that, but this was tangible. This was something that they really sought and they got what they asked for. So that was a big one for industry.

Mik Aidt (20:38)

So just for my understanding here, and I think also for our listeners understanding, so the Net Zero Map, is that a tool for the management, for the leaders, or is it a tool for the individuals, the employees, so to say, at floor level? Or is it both?

Dr. Jon Rhodes (20:55)

Yeah, it’s for the coaches. So it’s for the coaches to go in and deliver in a systematic way through different, through various steps.

And then the outcome is the acting, like what they do, the behavior is the outcome, the projects are the outcome for the employees. Yes, they feel more connected. They have a better ability to problem solve, better cognitive skills, better connection with other people, better collaboration and better understanding.

Like self-awareness is the big thing, if you’re a great leader, have a good self-awareness and that’s what this program does.

Mik Aidt (21:26)

So I’m just gonna ask some basic questions because what’s the difference between a coach and a consultant and who is the coach working with? Is that the management?

Dr. Jon Rhodes (21:36)

So a consultant will go in and they’ll do, in my eyes anyway, it’s about contracting. So I always think of it as contracting.

It depends on how many sessions you go in and do. What the problem is, often for what we do is we’ll stay with the organisation beyond the contract and they’ll say to us, can we go again? Because this is great.

Coaching in my eyes is a mixture of one-to-one sessions, and also group sessions. Now group coaching is very, very difficult to do well. People do it, they don’t do it very well.

So coaches have the ability to go in and coach individuals and teams. Yes, are they consultants? Kind of, depends on how they’re contracted. And generally we would stay with the organisation beyond and we’ll do check-ins.

But for this initial project, this was all research based for these organisations, just for the data to try and see whether this approach actually works. So obviously it’s more of a research model than a coaching model, but it is a coaching model in my eyes. Correct me if I’m wrong guys.

Alan Taylor (22:41)

I’ll add to you. And I think it’s very, it is situational, like you called out there is in your world. Yeah, it’s from the academic sort of side. And, but for me, for the background in IT consultancy world, where you go in to solve a problem.

And it was back to what Cherry mentioned earlier, you know, it’s like, where’s which tap do you need to fix? Go and fix that tap. Yeah, but the case, but the pipes bulging over here. No, no, don’t fix that. We want the tap, we want the tap fixed.

And that’s where consulting often falls over because it can often be just that short term, get this done. But adding just adding to that, I think it is very situational. So Jon shared his view and it’s and I’m not disagreeing. I’m 100 per cent agreeing. It’s just very different. Depends where you’re playing.

Cherry Ward (23:27)

Yeah, and putting my coaching hat on, because I do both, think coaching is more of a transformational process. So, you know, by creating that meaning and awareness and connecting to people’s individual purpose and also at a team level, you can create the conditions for transformation.

Dr. Jon Rhodes (23:42)

There’s probably something in there about accountability as well. I feel like consultants generally aren’t accountable, whereas coaches absolutely are accountable.

I mean, it’s just my perception. I generally feel accountable when I’m going in and doing and doing sessions. If I’m a consultant going in doing a one off, I’m doing a one off. I’m not going to have a great deal of impact.

Hopefully, there’ll be people out there who can take lessons on board and evolve. But, you know, coaching happens over multiple sessions and there is accountability and there’s usually return on investment as well.

Mik Aidt (24:13)

Accountability is becoming a very big word after what’s happening in American politics, I think. And it will probably also influence how we do business.

Alan Taylor (24:25)

I think that’s a good point and I think that plays into that point that we’ve just been discussing about the differences because one of the, even when I’ve been running, and this is where my butt comes from, even when I’ve been involved in transformation work, I’ve been expected to be the solution more often than not, even when it’s not really what should be expected.

I’m not saying that’s all the case, but not at all. And that’s, think the situation is. Why are they bringing in the consultants?

And what you just raised there, Mik, is, I think, a scenario where a lot of times the consultants are brought in because somebody wants the work to be pointed at somebody else. They can take the blame. They can be attributable.

And therefore, they don’t want to coach there because that means they’ve got to think for themselves and they’ve got to make the call. So it also depends on how strong and brave the leaders are who are bringing us in to help them along this journey.

Mik Aidt (25:19)

That’s a valid point. Now, what’s going to happen in the next month? What’s the plan for the net zero MAP?

Cherry Ward (25:26)

We actually have some lunch and learn, sort of sessions happening across three continents in March. So in Europe, sort of Europe, and AMEA time zone, as well as the Americas time zone and in APAC.

So you can head over to our website and register just to learn more and deep dive into the Net Zero MAP framework and also meet the rest of the team as well.

Mik Aidt (25:50)

And when you say the website, it is…

Cherry Ward (25:53)

It’s netzeromap.org

Alan Taylor (25:56)

And we mustn’t forget another event which we’re running. We’ve got the book launch. As Jon mentioned earlier, we’ve been written a chapter in a book around the Inner Development Goals and stories from these sorts of things that we’ve been doing.

Mik Aidt (26:09)

Thank you very much about this was all about the net zero MAP and the framework and how people can use that to transform their businesses into a more sustainable business.

Alan Taylor (26:23)

So just remember the revolution doesn’t end here. It’s up to each and every one of us to take this knowledge and inspiration from today’s episode and turn that into action.

Cherry Ward (26:34)

So whether it’s implementing sustainable practices in your own business or advocating for change in your community, every step counts towards building a better future.

Mik Aidt (26:45)

And don’t forget to visit our website as well, businessrevolution.earth for more resources. And you can also go back to the older episodes and see the ways that you can get involved.

Alan Taylor (27:00)

And if you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, please be sure to subscribe, rate it, let us know how you’re feeling and review it. We would love to hear what your thoughts are, your feedback, and it helps us get a better job.

Cherry Ward (27:13)

And thank you for joining us on this journey of transformation. Hopefully together we can revolutionize the way we do business and create a world that’s sustainable for generations to come.